Comments: Internet-Airshow of VFTC, April 23

[An.Petrovich]

We will be glad to see any comments about subj.

[Andrew_McP]

Thanks to "Searcher" posting login details I can now post.

I have written on other forums how much I enjoyed your display. <Wayne's World>We are not worthy!</Wayne's World>    

I hope that by next Friday I will have a movie ready to show everyone what they missed. Perhaps then more people will turn up to your next show!

I must go now. I have to record some more clips for the movie

Andrew McP

PS I still cannot believe how well the team flew. Anyone can fly well for a few seconds, but to keep flying well for a whole, coordinated display... that is *very* special. Well done.

[LawnDart]

Amazing show! Really enjoyed it a lot and we can definitely learn from each other. Live shows is something we (the VTB) would like to do in the future too, but it's uncharted waters for us right now. I'd imagine you need a really stable server and good insternet connection, something we normally don't have at all times. As far as our piloting skills I'm confident we could do a live show and for the future we're looking into how we can make this happen even with all of us at different places in the country (world).

Back to your show... I liked the burer-loop on takeoff a lot and the tightness of your display! The SU-27 is quite an amazing plane. Our show is much more streched out since we do highspeed loops and rolls that reflect the actual speed of the real Thunderbirds, but it's definitely something we can adjust to make the virtual airshow better. I'm really impressed by the coreography and the show as a whole. The only thing I think you guys could improve on for future shows is flying even closer to the other planes!!!

We occasionally practice flying ultra-close together and in the end it makes us better pilots and we can perform an extremely tight diamond formation!

Once again, thanks for the show (and track) VFTC!!!

LawnDart

[Han]

Thanks for your words, it is very pleasure to hear such words from you guys!

About extra-tight formation:
It is possible even now, but manuvering in such formation in real-time show is dangerous: pilots can mistake, network can lagg (this is most danger: when the new spectrator entering the game (or sometimes by unknown causes), most of cliets have a little freeze, which causes lagging up to 1-2 meters (it was during our last show up to 2-3 times in "diamond" part).

So we're oriented only to life-show programs, and this require the high-level of flight safety. Even in training.
Our first criterion of good flight - that all planes are hunk and there was no preconditions for flight accidents.

So in this show programm in diamond flight the intervals and distances can be reduced up to twice just now (for one flight), as you know: "Most simple formation flying for wingman is in most close position to leader". But we will not trainning such formation becourse it is useless in real-time show becourse the probability of success is reducing in several times.
Also, we're not using the invulnerability setting (same as other such settings, only full-real mode) ever.
At least - we're think so. BUT we can mistake, and if you guys will show the real-time programm in extra-tight formation, than we'll try to do same

[Искатель]

LawnDart
Welcome to our forum! Nice to see you here.
Our server was provided to us by our good friends. They are fnacies of virtual aviation too and they can provide you their server too. You can try it for close training (under the password). The server has 10 Mbit Internet channel, not so big but found to be enough.
It is the great idea to make the virtual airshow together, we hope it will come to life!

Добавлено:
 And it's great that every aerobatic team has their own style! I hope you will make your extrmelly tight formation online and will show it on the airshow, it will look great! Our goal is not to compare each other's skill, but to make great looking show! So, let's make it together :beer:  

[Han]

Searcher
Sorry my friend
But Gennadych team server is provided by Zebra telecom and it is located in MOSCOW, ping from USA to Moscow is up to 300-400ms, it is not very good point for formation flying So it is not best offer I think

LawnDart
Guys, you're exelent virtual team, your brand is very popular and famous in USA and in Europe. I think if you'll try than certainly you'll find the supporter with exelent server. I think that in USA is much more such possibilities than in Russia.

[LawnDart]

LawnDart
Guys, you're exelent virtual team, your brand is very popular and famous in USA and in Europe. I think if you'll try than certainly you'll find the supporter with exelent server. I think that in USA is much more such possibilities than in Russia.

Good point! That's something we will definitely have to look into (getting a server sponsor). You guys wouldn't know if there are any plans to make a lomac dedicated server patch/version in the future?

What's next for the VFTC?

Also, just out of curiosity... you have been flying with 1.1 for some time! Have you ever seen the "stuttering" in multiplayer that we are having problems with now? Look here if you
re not sure what I'm talking about. It's a major problem for all of us and we're not the only ones getting this phenomenon. Stuttering thread lockon.ru (ENG)

LawnDart

[Han]

Known issue...
ED is working on it. Cause of this problem is known, we (ED) now trying to find a solution for it.
I think that until june this problem must be solved.

At least, this point is very anger but it is not critical, even for formation flying. Low FPS (12-15) is much more critical issue for formation flying and VFTC have live out in this condition during our summer show (see our latest video ). The PC, which we have used, was not wery fast...

[Искатель]

LawnDart
By the way, I have an idea for you. Just in case if you won't be able to find a good server, you could record a track of the show and publish it. It is very good intermediate step between video and live show.

[LawnDart]

LawnDart
By the way, I have an idea for you. Just in case if you won't be able to find a good server, you could record a track of the show and publish it. It is very good intermediate step between video and live show.

I know this is a good idea, however we run into some of the same problems with tracks as we would do flying live. Lag, warping etc. The biggest difference would be less spectators! We'll keep practicing for our next video and we try to fly the full show as much as possible and if we get a good track (when everyone has a good connection) we'll publish it, but our main goal is the video and try to find a way to host live shows after that...

LawnDart

P.S. I'm still amazed how close to the airport you kept your 12 minute show! Ours is spread out about 5 miles on each side of the field, although our solo pilots fly their maneuvers in between the diamond, so there's not too much time just waiting around!

[Han]

Yes, there are also two way to organise the show:
1. Point-located group pilotage, by time breaking-up the planes diminishing number of planes and rising the complexity of pilotage
2. Group passes view point with different maneuvers with long interval between passes which is filled by solist or opposite pair pair pilotage.

1st way are using by "Russian Knights" and "Swifts" pilotage groups.
2nd way are using by "Freche Tricolori" and "Ptrole de France" pilotage groups.

2nd way is less exacting for wingmans but more exacting to leaders (becourse they're bound to keep the time for sinchronysing the passes)
1st way is less exacting to leaders but more exacting to wingmans (becourse they must keep the formation in continious cascade of comlexity maneuvers)

2nd way is usable when group showing the large number of planes,
1st way is usable when group showing the limited number of planes

Also, there are one bang-on exception: the co-operative pilotage complex of "Russian Knights" and "Swifts" in large diamond (9 planes) formation - there are continious point-located complex. AMAISING show! You're must see it - unforgettable pageantry!

PS
VFTC have used both types:
MAKS 2003 and Zhukovsky 2004: 2nd type
Latest internet show: 1st type (becourse of limited number of planes).
 

[LawnDart]

Very interesting and what a great photo!!! The Tbirds use the 2nd method exclusively during their show with muliple timing calls (hacks) and thus far is what we've been using as well...

I wish I could get to see the Russian Knights and Swifts teams for real some day!!!

LawnDart

[Han]

The Tbirds use the 2nd method exclusively during their show with muliple timing calls (hacks) and thus far is what we've been using as well

Will be very interesting to look at such real time show!

I wish I could get to see the Russian Knights and Swifts teams for real some day!!!

Yes, also I'm hope that in this day they'll be in good form!  

PS
I've desiderium to see ThunderBirds and Blue Angels sometime, it'll be great day for me!